On Nov 9, 5:47 pm, Don Stockbauer <donstockba...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Humans have free will. An emergent phenomenon from their complexity.
Is this free will caused by anything? Yes, you claim that it is a
consequence of complext systems. But is it really free, or is it
"extended across time" in the sense that the self making the choices
based upon prior causes, stored memories, adjustments along the way
and what I think is Mill's view. I would replace the free, in "free
will" to "my will" or "your will." When you said complexity it
reminded me of this unfinished stub I was working on.
Mill used to say something along the lines that the steering of the
self by will makes the system end up somewhere else where we decide
and our progress is checked by "stored memory" accessed in the future
and slight course details adjusted appropriately. Therefore if this is
what Mill believed then free will is "extended in and across time?"
"Mill's argument is basically that we have free will, but that
we will almost always choose to act the same way if faced
with the same cir***stances. The reason for this
according to Mill is because of who we are, what our
characters are, what beliefs, desires, and motivations
we have. These factors influence our actions, and
because we don't usually change the core of our person,
we are fairly regular in our actions, unless we
purposefully choose to act against our
normal characters."
http://www.elliotcross.com/essays/essay4.html
....It's an election hall of idiots, for idiots, and by idiots, and it
works marvelously. This is the true nature of democracy and of all
distributed governance. At the close of the curtain, by the choice of
the citizens, the swarm takes the queen and thunders off in the
direction indicated by mob vote. The queen who follows, does so
humbly. If she could think, she would remember that she is but a mere
peasant girl, blood sister of the very nurse bee instructed (by whom?)
to select her larva, an ordinary larva, and raise it on a diet of
royal jelly, transforming Cinderella into the queen. By what karma is
the larva for a princess chosen? And who chooses the chooser?
"The hive chooses," is the disarming answer of William Morton Wheeler,
a natural philosopher and entomologist of the old school, who founded
the field of social insects. Writing in a bombshell of an essay in
1911 ("The Ant Colony as an Organism" in the Journal of Morphology),
Wheeler claimed that an insect colony was not merely the analog of an
organism, it is indeed an organism, in every im****tant and scientific
sense of the word. He wrote: "Like a cell or the person, it behaves as
a unitary whole, maintaining its identity in space, resisting
dissolution...neither a thing nor a concept, but a continual flux or
process."
It was a mob of 20,000 united into oneness.
http://www.kk.org/outofcontrol/
Free will is a personalized interaction in a massive field of
interactive causes. If the motive rolls out the organizational
structure that steers the rest it is free. If an system is imposed
down upon it from the top down it is not free. There is an spectrum of
Control; centralized and decentralized. Decentralized control of
simple factors that grow into massive events are free. Like people
voting for politicians the will is an summed set of cycles ever
changing into an free choice. Where is the freedon/causation here?
The notion that in an ecosystem view of parallel processes some point
in an attempt to reduce it all would show that smaller units in the
ecosystem might similar to serial computers but an ecosystem by this
symbology would consist of trillions of serial computers organized
into a multi-layered grammatical structure of organizational entities
each with threir sphere of influence all at once contributing to the
overall emerging waves of influence pon the backs of various levels of
activity.
It seem to me that it is more appropriate to consider free will in the
context of a herd. All the individuals influence the direction of the
mass of individuals. Maybe the sense of self and freedom comes from an
overall activity but the means that initiate these activities are like
Shpherders or sheep dog. By a few simple rules and with a few
individuals the entire m***** of individuals can be herded in this
direction of that. The sheep dog has a few simple rules to simulate an
objective movement of the herd like; if the dog sees some individuals
moving and steering in an undesired direction he runs over and nips
the heels of a few select sheep and a wave of exponentially growing
movement increases across the herd that may alter the general
trajectory of the population.
For us there may be a disconnect because our sense of being,
consciousness and freedom may be major cross regional and mode locked
regions of the brain but the stimulants to these vaster activities are
small groups of herding impulses. Up and down back and forth in scale
the dynamic fluctuates. These small influences have to grow so the
initial state can lead to very complex results and some information
trickles back down so that a monitoring effect takes place etc....
http://www.kk.org/outofcontrol/
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